Israel Gaza Settlements and Gaza Aid Protests (Public Board)

by FSK, Tuesday, January 30, 2024, 19:33 (21 days ago)

There are rumors that Israel is planning to build settlements in Gaza, similar to ones in the West Bank. I think it's a good idea. First, it extracts a real penalty from the Palestinians for starting and losing a war. Second, it focuses terrorist attacks on the settlements instead of inside Israel. Third, if they're going to have a military presence in Gaza, someone has to pay for it. Finally, by splitting up Gaza into pieces, that makes it harder for the terrorists to organize and move.

Israel started allowing aid shipments into Gaza from Israel. Previously they were only entering through the Egypt border. Now anti-Hamas protestors are blockading the aid trucks. Israel's government isn't that eager to arrest them, so it's led to a stalemate where no aid is entering Gaza through Israel.

Israel should have put its foot down from the beginning. "No food or water into Gaza until all hostages are released." Making deals for hostages just encourages future hostage taking. Allegedly, the mastermind for October 7 was released in a previous terrorists-for-hostage deal.

It's an idiot policy to trade 100 terrorists for 1 hostage, if those terrorists go on to kill more than one person later.

Israel Gaza Settlements and Gaza Aid Protests

by JoFrance, Thursday, February 01, 2024, 18:36 (19 days ago) @ FSK

I read somewhere today that 50% of residential housing units in Gaza have been damaged or destroyed. So, if Israel built settlements, would they be for the displaced Palestinians? How would that be any different than what was just destroyed?

I didn't think Israel had any plans to occupy Gaza in the long term. I thought the plan was to have some kind of coalition government, but not with the Palestinian Authority or Hamas. The politics in that region are so complicated. I thought this article about their political structure was very informative. I didn't read it all, but no wonder that area of the world is such a mess.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/what-is-the-governing-structure-of-gaza-the-west-bank-and-jerusalem

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Israeli Settlements

by Cornpop Sutton ⌂, A bad bad dude who makes good shine., Thursday, February 01, 2024, 19:04 (19 days ago) @ JoFrance

I have always taken the phrase "Israeli settlements" to indicate what are basically suburban enclaves for Jewish Israelis that function as tiny colonies in the hostile parts of Israel. They are established to expand or validate territorial land claims, like planting flags but permanent, and occupied so they are always "manned". I believe this is always the intention of the word "settlement" in this context. Basically if you will to create "squatter's rights".

NEVER EVER as housing beneficial to Palestinians or others. Settlements are intended as an adversarial poke into hostile territory in dispute.

Israeli Settlements

by JoFrance, Thursday, February 01, 2024, 19:26 (19 days ago) @ Cornpop Sutton

I think you're probably right about that but why would they want to live there, all things considered? Maybe its good politically for Israel, but not such a great place to raise a family.

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Why?

by Cornpop Sutton ⌂, A bad bad dude who makes good shine., Thursday, February 01, 2024, 20:12 (19 days ago) @ JoFrance
edited by Cornpop Sutton, Thursday, February 01, 2024, 20:27

It's pretty simple and very obvious, Jo. It's Zionism in real life, applied to daily life. Zionism is as militant as it gets.

Israelis internally have an extremely hawkish "war culture". War is close to them, unlike the US's citizens. They grow up on the trope that they're surrounded by hostile forces that wish to destroy their state. Which is true. So generally, individual Israelis consider themselves as de facto warriors for their civilization and that idea is integrated into daily life.

Why Build Settlements?

by FSK, Thursday, February 01, 2024, 22:37 (19 days ago) @ Cornpop Sutton
edited by FSK, Friday, February 02, 2024, 16:11

The most obvious reason to build settlements is that it establishes that it's Israel's territory. The more people living there, the harder it is to move them. It also reduces the land available to Palestinians. It also cuts their territory into pieces, making it harder for them to organize.

The West Bank was part of Jordan from 1948-1967. During that time, all the Jews who lived there were kicked out. That's why it's "fair" for Jews to move back now. The name "West Bank" is itself a Palestinian invention. If you say "Should Jews live in the West Bank?", you might answer "no". If the question is "Should Jews live in Judea?", then it becomes harder to answer "no".

There's another reason why settlements are fair. The land was offered as a peace deal, and it was turned down. Why should Israel be forced to follow a peace offer that was turned down? The Palestinians turned down multiple peace deals for 100% of the West Bank and Gaza and instead fought for decades and lost. If you fight and lose, there's no reason to expect the peace deal you turned down 50 years ago will still be on the table.

If the Palestinians turned down a peace deal for Gaza and the West Bank, and instead keep fighting, then Israel has no reason to reserve the land for them.

The Palestinians will accept no peace deal other than "We get all of Israel and genocide the Jews currently living there." Given that, there's no reason for Israel to be generous.

That's also why Israel has to be hardasses when it comes to violent Muslims. Right now, the USA and Europe still think peace is possible. Europe is going to find out the hard way in the next decade or two when Muslims start a civil war and try to violently take over Europe.

Yeah, most of the buildings in Gaza were destroyed. If they didn't want their buildings destroyed, maybe they shouldn't have started a war? Also, most of those buildings were free gifts, paid via foreign aid. If someone gave you free buildings as a reward for war with Israel, they're probably willing to give you more free buildings now. I think Israel's plan is that Gaza is going to be living in tents. They can't be allowed to have pipes or concrete, because it'll just be used for rockets, tunnels, and terrorism.

I still say Israel made a huge mistake by not actually murdering everyone in Gaza. The moment the IDF leaves, they elect new terrorist leaders and start preparing for the next war with Israel. Israel needs a permanent presence in Gaza.

If Israel did genocide Gaza, the war would be over in a week or two and then the media would move on to something else. By trying to kill Hamas but spare everyone else, that forces the war to drag out for months, which is a steady drip feed of casualties and negative press for Israel.

It's also wrong to say "Most Palestinians are innocent." There were mobs cheering Hamas on Oct 7. Opinion polls show overwhelming support for Hamas, even among Muslims living in the USA or Europe.

Muslims are violent in every country. Muslims are currently fighting in India. How is that Israel's fault? There are Muslim no-go zones in Europe. How is that Israel's fault?

If a group won't accept a peaceful political solution, violence is the only answer.

Israel Might Invade Lebanon

by FSK, Thursday, February 01, 2024, 22:40 (19 days ago) @ Cornpop Sutton

Hezbollah in Lebanon has been firing rockets at Israel since Oct 7. In addition to evacuating civilians near Gaza, Israel also had to evacuate civilians near the border with Lebanon.

The rumor is that Israel is seriously considering invading Lebanon due to Hezbollah. That probably will also lead to them seizing a huge chunk of territory.

Why?

by JoFrance, Friday, February 02, 2024, 18:41 (18 days ago) @ Cornpop Sutton

Its understandable for Israelis to have a war culture. They have to in order to survive. I'm sure they probably need a warrior mindset to live in one of the Gaza settlements.

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Israeli Settlements

by ,ndo, Certifiable!, Sunday, February 04, 2024, 02:40 (17 days ago) @ JoFrance

I think you're probably right about that but why would they want to live there, all things considered? Maybe its good politically for Israel, but not such a great place to raise a family.

The first question that Jews ask themselves about anything is, "Is it good for Jews?" Always.

Now, people can debate whether this is a good or bad thing for Jews, and whether it's good or bad thing for non-Jews, and what the consequences of this fact might be in any given scenario. But one thing not up for debate is that this fact must always be front of mind when trying to understand anything that involves Jews in any way. It helps enormously.

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Good for the Yahudis

by Cornpop Sutton ⌂, A bad bad dude who makes good shine., Sunday, February 04, 2024, 14:07 (17 days ago) @ ,ndo

^ Great "first principle". It certainly fits objective reality.

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Israel Gaza Settlements and Gaza Aid Protests

by ,ndo, Certifiable!, Sunday, February 04, 2024, 02:20 (17 days ago) @ FSK

First, it extracts a real penalty from the Palestinians for starting and losing a war.

You do know that Israel created Hamas, right? For Israel's own purposes. You do,yes?

"hamas was created by israel"
2014 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
2024 https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-01-20-24/h_4e542b6c91fa6b423bae6789075d8358 'Israel created and "funded" Hamas, says EU's top diplomat'
2023 https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

If you didn't know, does this fact change your position on anything?

Israel Gaza Settlements and Gaza Aid Protests

by FSK, Sunday, February 04, 2024, 11:06 (17 days ago) @ ,ndo

Israel only supported Hamas at the very beginning. Since then, it's been 100% Muslim terrorists in charge.

That's like saying "The USA once supported bin Laden. Therefore, he was justified destroying the World Trade Center."

Muslims are violent everywhere, whether Israel and Jews are involved or not.

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